Elevate with Grace

S2, Ep 7 Money is Not a Dirty Word

• Elevate with Grace

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In this episode Miranda and Claire are here to convince you that conversations about money and finances are fun! How can that be, you ask.  Because having a positive mindset about all things $ is a critical element to unlocking our opportunity to live life on our own terms.

We dive into some of the crazy stats about how much women are stressing about money. We chat about how wonderful it can be to embark on a learning journey to explore our own money mindsets and change them for the better. And why now is the perfect time to supercharge our collective girl power and change the money game in a way that our future selves, and the next generation of women, will love us for it. 
 
Our action challenge this week: To dig deep into our money mindset. Write down the emotions you're feeling around money and any financial goals you've been putting off. Choose one of them to take action on. Set clear timelines on when you will get it done.  Take a least one step towards that goal in the next two weeks.  And, importantly, decide on a reward you will treat yourself to when you've achieved that money goal for yourself.

Article references:
Fidelity Investments, Women Financial Sentiments Survey
Forbes, The Psychology of Money: What You Need To Know To Have A (Relatively) Fearless Financial Life
Marie Claire, The Gender Imbalances That Still Exist in Australia Right Now
Australian Financial Review, New Worries Drive Restless Workers To Look Around

Book References:
Sallie Krawcheck, Own It, https://booktopia.kh4ffx.net/elevate-own-it
Gary Keller & Jay Papasan, The One Thing, The Surprisingly Simple Truth behind Extraordinary Results https://booktopia.kh4ffx.net/elevate-theonething
Emma Isaacs, Winging It link: https://booktopia.kh4ffx.net/ElevateWingingIt
These are affiliate links

We would love to hear your thoughts on this episode - check out our Instagram, LinkedIn or  Website or Email elevatewithgrace@gmail.com


Music created by Claire's daughter Hannah

Claire:

Welcome to season two of the elevate with grays podcast, for women who are short on time and long to take steps to create success on their own terms. This podcast is here for women who feel overworked under appreciated and stuck in a constant world of spinning plates and want more life. We're here to take the plethora of Intel out there and curated into the highest value insights. We combine it with our lived experiences to offer bite-sized actionable tips. So you can look back at the end of the quarter and the end of the year, knowing that you're working towards achieving success on your own terms.

Miranda:

Welcome to episode seven, season two of the elevate with grace podcast. My name is Miranda and with me is the fabulously have a vicious and talented Claire and well, I could not be more grateful to have Claire in my world to bring this episode to life. One of Claire's fabulous passions in life has been to share with women how essential it is that we understand and embrace the power of money positively to ensure we get over those inane, hangups and yesteryear mentalities around our finances and to really dive into what finances mean for. We did a deep dive into this back in episode 11 of season one. So do encourage you to check that out. Claire's passion and put around. This is just fantastic. She's very much opened my eyes up and really forced me to think about my own mentality, in the financial space and, and what I take for granted. When we were first dreaming up, what elevate with grace could be, Claire knew we needed a financial pillar. And while I express my concerns, mostly around my own lack of acumen in this area, she shut each concern down gracefully and convinced. She was absolutely right that we needed to go on this journey with you and I am there with you ladies, and we should be having these conversations with all of our friends. Without owning our financial power, it is just not possible to achieve success on our own terms. So to deliver on what the promise we wanted to create, we really did need this financial pillar, as a big important part of it. Studies would suggest that my form of mindset and kind of nervousness or discomfort around finances is actually reflective of the majority that the Claire's in the mode of rare. And we love. And that we need to work hard to move our mindset and our shift into this area. My mindset previously was that you worked hard, you earned promotions and that the rest would take care of itself. And it's a dangerous assumption and we definitely need more girlfriends like Claire pushing us to have these uncomfortable conversations around money and collectively move us. So in this episode, we're going to dive into why money is not a dirty word. We're going to explore where our mindset is today. Some of the stress factors now, and in the future that we need to take control of and not let them control us and why this is the perfect time to be taking control of our finances in a bigger way than we currently. I'll action challenge for this week is to dig deep into our mindset, write down any emotions that we're feeling around money and any financial goals or actions that you've been putting off. And then take action for just one of those. Before the next episode, we need to make this. Say clear timelines on when it will be done at least one step towards a goal the next two weeks and have a reward for ourselves when complete, and then potentially think about some of the things that are actually going to get in the way of us achieving this goal and try and set up a plan for how we can avoid these. Before we dive into this episode, let's first reflect briefly on the action challenge of our last episode. These podcasts are great, but without any kind of outcome or any actions. To chronic round. These we're going to continue to be in the same place we are in a years time. Okay. So I think these action challenges is, so important. And in the last episode, we really asked two things. One to try and check out the book are in it by Sallie Krawcheck. It was a fantastic raid and had some really great learnings that I hope you enjoyed. And the second was to actually, think about the six key strengths identified that women do tend to do better collectively and use these words, to think about our work differently, to think about how we profile ourselves differently. I have been absolutely living this challenge and will continue to. And share this with as many women, all those battling, to secure a diverse workforce as possible. And I've had some of those conversations with men in the last couple of weeks as well. Last week I was invited to a five day summit and I really needed these case strengths top of mind to validate why I was there and how I could bring a difference. Although I was failing you, I was able to contribute meaningfully focusing on looking for impact and meaning, leveraging my love of learning and, being open to share that with the community and considering the holistic viewpoint of what we were looking to achieve. I also observed, and I was far more curious about my colleagues, the answers they were giving and doing a lot more questioning around that so that we got some great collaboration as a result. So, that was a really great outcome. What about you, Claire? How do you go through this challenge and how are you doing this week?

Claire:

I am good. My friend I'm really good. Was not quite on an exotic somewhat like yourself, but in the office doing a bunch of planning and it was great to be working with people in 3d. Although by Friday I was quite keen to get back into my boots and my track suit pants in my home office. You realize that after two years of working from home, you've got to build up that stamina to get back into the 3d office environments. But it's been great and a great opportunity to keep that action from the Sallie Krawcheck owner book, at the top of the my mind. I think for me, what I did notice is the, concept of focusing on the long-term perspective, and like you mentioned that you were saying to Miranda on your offsite, is it seeing things holistically to manage complexity. I noticed that I was creating a few metaphors, to get other colleagues to try and understand and see the balance between what the short-term objectives are of what we're trying to achieve with the project that we're working on, but also balancing out with the current market context and the broader long-term perspective. And weighing that up from a risk perspective What are the long-term implications if we wait too long staying in this space. I think because of the accident I had in the back of my mind that I was getting a lot of response to some of the metaphors that I was creating. And I didn't appreciate that. I did that before. So that was nice to realize that. Also few episodes ago when we were talking about. Time and boundaries. I've been looking at ways that I can, harness energy levels and focus on doing high-impact work in the morning, more reactive and then administrative work in the afternoon. And I think noticing, Again, the thinking about things holistically and the long-term perspective helped me get back to the concept of the one thing that we talked about in the one thing book review. So I feel like it's all been coming together a little bit lately, so that's been good. Definitely I think you're right. It's The love of learning element of bringing it all in and from a holistic long-term perspective. So, yeah, I was enjoying being more mindful of those things. I didn't want to interrupt you. You were in such a great flow at the beginning. Thank you for the pump up, in the intro Miranda but I must confess that I am very much on a learning journey with money every day, like everybody. Some of the stuff that we talked about in the Sally Kaushik episode, I have a tendency to keep way too much of my savings in cash portfolios. I'm also nervous get nervy about investing in stock and so I'm very much paying attention to my risk aversion and all those things. And although I do have a financial services background, it's always good to be challenging yourself. And as we talk today. This is just a chat between friends, exploring and getting better with it financial acumen and leaning into our financial powers women. What we're really trying to do today is encourage you to emulate this with your friends and your partner and your boss around having little conversations. When I was doing a bit of research for this episode, I found fidelity investments had a financial sentiment survey. From data captured in April and November, 2020. Uh, and bear with me, cause there is positivity in this message, through the start of the COVID pandemic found that 79% of women felt weighted down by job and money stress, 72% stressed about retirement savings and having enough to live comfortably on in retirement. And this is a big thing for me around superannuation and knowledge of the rights of women in their fifties in Australia that are becoming homeless are on the rise. And a lot of it has to do with financial security and savings. 71% stress out about their ability to save for goals outside of retirement. Yeah. And 54% are stressed out about the ability to manage the day to day expenses. you know, That's a high portion of women stressing out about money and probably not talking about it, right? And as we spoke about in the last episode, like exercise spending a little bit of time each day and each week thinking about and talking about money is so critical, One of the silver linings of dependence that came from the fidelity investment sentiment survey is that 71% of women were planning to take action on their financial wellbeing. In the next six months. Women are now having more conversations about money than before. 60% of talking about financial topics with family and friends, and increase from 34% since before the pandemic. I think There's a few silver linings for us if it's means that we thinking more proactively about looking after our money for our future selves, I was feeling pretty pumped about that. Less than one third of women have six months of emergency funds saved, but 52% of women say that they need that amount of savings to sleep at night. That really is a lovely tying back to some of the advice that Sally crushed. It gives in her book, around the need to have. Emergency savings and spending a little bit of time, getting yourself comfortable with your financial stuff. Reiterating as Sally said in the book, everyone needs more financial education. That's a given, but it shouldn't prevent us from rolling our sleeves up and getting involved and finding a little bit more about. What's the right amount that we should invest now or put into our superannuation at HH. Should we be investing in the stock market and how should we be doing that? Do we have emergency funds? How are we setting up our budget each week? We can all do that. So I'm pretty excited to have this chat today. And it's great to hear that lots of women are thinking more about it. That's really good.

Miranda:

Very encouraging. And I must admit that piece around education is not a reason not to start, and that men start without knowing exactly what everything is. And women hold back has resonated with myself as well. You know, continue to think about that and think about, okay, well, what can I do? What, how can I start? I want to enroll in a course. I want to learn everything about the share market before I get started. And I think that's a reasonable, Yeah concern, but it shouldn't hold us back. And, you know, quite encouraged that there was a lot of services out there that mean that we don't need to know everything. You can't be an expert at everything, but it's so important that we prioritize this. Quite concerning there that less than one third of women have that emergency fund, but 52% needed to slate this little women that aren't sleeping so well at the moment. And quite a bit of stress out there around money as well. That mindset is just going to be so important and, really taking control of. Why aren't we doing this? What, what are the barriers that are getting in the way and how can we help to overcome these. There's a great Forbes article, around this where it dives into the most important emotions in relation to money that we feel. Feel guilt, shame and envy. They're all very negative emotions. And I've recently read the Atlas of the Heart, with Brene Brown. And I think you have to Claire or parts of it, such an incredible piece around language and these emotions. And if these are the emotions that were contributing to money, it is not one day that we are running in the other direction. You know, there's no positive emotions here. There's no happiness to play in. where the reality is money can actually give you a lot of power money can, allow you to do some incredible things. You can help others with money. you can set yourself up and your children are with their futures. But the overriding emotions that we currently relate to in this huge study that Forbes did was that it's fear, guilt, shame, and envy.

Claire:

Yeah. I will go back and pick up Brene's book because I love how she distinguishes between those emotions. I think that's really important. One of the things too, that I discovered, a few years ago when I was looking. My connection with money. I noticed that it was very much connected to my, need and value around freedom, freedom and equity is a big value for me And as you said, dialing it back to work out what your personal relationship is with money and why you may be doing the things that you're doing around not budgeting or being a bit risk averse about investing or not wanting to understand what's in your superannuation account, whatever those things are. They're probably related to. Your experiences as a child, it's all that stuff. And so it is quite important to spend a bit of time getting curious around what emotions, money triggers for you and what kind of money personality you have, because that will help take action in a way that responds to your feelings about money. Yeah, I it's a really good, cool.

Miranda:

And that's perfect to this quote, which is without awareness, these emotions will override your rational thinking and drive your action. And so if we don't have awareness of how we're feeling about money, our action will generally be to get away from things that. I feel discomfort. That's just a standard human response. And so we need to bring back in our rational thinking and, look to take that action because I love those words, freedom, equity, they're much more positive places to think about money, the shame and avoidance really tie in together. And we know that Shame is really one of those super powerful emotions where people will do anything they can to get out of it. It's worse than embarrassment and fear because shame is something where, we, are driven and by response to avoid shame in any way we can. And so if we. are shameful feelings around money. Things like I don't have enough money. I've avoided thinking about money. I've avoided, what I'm supposed to do around this. I haven't created a safety net. I haven't planned for a time and I'm really ignorant about this. And I just don't know what to learn about it. I buy stuff when I'm unhappy. I know I spend too much, these are overly shameful feelings. But then if you're feeling those, you're going to avoid taking action against them because you find them shameful. So it's this vicious cycle that we really need to be aware of and get out of, because if we buy stuff, when you're unhappy, one of the counters you can do to that is find other things to trigger when you're unhappy. Do you go for a walk? Do you call a friend? You can start to set yourselves up with these solutions, but you need to know and be aware of them before you can take that action.

Claire:

I wonder if there's a synergy with how people felt through the COVID pandemic, it was a very clear wake up call that we're not in control of everything. There's been a lot through that experience like things that we thought were always secure, like jobs and our career and money coming. in The survey from Fidelity's indicating that more women are starting to talk about these things, because in today's gig economy with lots of volatility, things change. And so having those safety nets and thinking more mindfully about how are we going to manage it? We need to take time off work for whatever reason, that's going to take away some of the worries, for sleeping at night. And we know we've got those savings for rainy days sitting there.

Miranda:

Absolutely. And I think the second part of that, that showed up for me was a very early belief in what money could achieve that I think I've forgotten about I was at a world vision youth leadership training session. And at the time I was very prepared to donate a lot of time to raising money. And I realized that it was nice to give that sort of time, without those people that are great to gift that money. I wasn't really doing that much with my time. I was asking other people to contribute that value to the people that need it. And my realization around base was that I could make more of an impact by, finding a way to earn more money. And I come back to that from a lot of the thought leadership around women asking for raises within the workforce and they do better when they ask for them as a community. If we're not too worried about our finances, we're not too worried about, now retirement, which let's get into it a bit further detox. I'm horrified by the numbers around women retiring with very little money. What I do think is that where we can also make an impact to the community around us, And we have agency to see something that's going on in Ukraine to see something that's going on, in Syria or this starving children, or, people, children dying, or people dying in countries. And we can actually make a difference we can contribute. And it gives us this agency back. I think there's a lot of powerlessness when you're seeing things happening like this and you can't contribute, you don't have the ability to maybe donate money, donate time tonight resource. So this is, in some ways I think that. If we can change our mindset around money, in that community space as well, then getting into the share market. and, and stuff. It doesn't just become a singular activity asking for the raise. It becomes something that you want to do so that you can have more power to help others. And I think for me, that was an important mindset shifts that I, I knew I hadn't focused on and that I want to get back into.

Claire:

In the book Own It Sally Krawcheck definitely recommends it as women We think about the holistic impact. So if we feel uncomfortable about asking for a raise, if we feel uncomfortable about talking about superannuation and retirement savings or investing a great way to think about that is the collectiveness of how that. Can have an impact, like you said, maybe not just for yourself around, but if you're thinking more about doing those things as a knock on for the community of women. It's a great segue to the second point that I wanted to make in this episode, it's important to recognize it. In 2022, Australia is still behind in terms of gender equality with the workforce and society is still largely dominated by and catered towards men and men. You mentioned it yourself last week, you were in a five day. Offsite and 90% were men. I work in financial services. We've come a long way. If I think about the last 15 years, however, there's still a male dominated aspect to some stuff. There's a article that I found by Mary Claire that summarizes the state of play in Australia right now. It was good. Cause then I didn't have to summarize the latest gender pay gap report myself. So thank you, Mary Claire, because basically the latest gender pay gap report, from Australia's workplace, gender equality agency, the report taken from 20, 20, 20, 21 found that women typically earn$7 72 for every$10 for men. And so that's data from last year so women typically learning about$25,000 a year, less than men every year. That means that the superannuation that goes into your super account that's compounding interest over your career Legislatively at 10% at the moment. So$25,000 less were earning on average than men every year with men, twice as likely to earn more than$120,000 a year than women. There's a lot of information out there that the COVID pandemic has exasperated the amount of mental load or emotional unpaid labor that women are doing. The Australian human rights commission found that women spend twice as many hours each day, and then men doing unpaid care work that takes away from our ability to get some of this money coming in. And has this for a kicker. We also are paying more for stuff it's called the pink tax. which means that the price of everyday items that are offered. related to women. So research conducted by imp in 2019, found that on average women pay 29% more for razers 16% more for bodywash and 12% more for underwear each and every time they shop. Yeah. Put that in the bag of collectively, let's all stop thinking about when we're talking to our bosses and our partners and thinking about our finances, that we're all leaning in individually to combat some of that stuff.

Miranda:

A lack this section because what you haven't done is just make it about celery. It's so much more it's about the bills we pay, the amount of care we take for ourselves, like guarantee. Those are like for lack of things, but the amount we spend on it's my cup. Hey. It's all, considerably, lots amount. And these are expectations for us to show up to work that are not on men, Yes. They have to wear colors. we do have to have our hair looking a certain way. There is an expectation that we will, Ensure that our kind of ice makes the standard within society. So there is definitely there. I'm really concerned. Introduction of a lot more enhancements in women. We're spending a lot like women on Botox and lip injections and all these things that are unfortunately putting women even further back, because salaries aren't going up, but the amount that they're actually spending to feel comfortable showing up, has changed and is changing. And so, yeah, it is wealth gap. Is far more encompassing than just the salary that you earn. I think one of them for me is really about changing the conversations. And we've been talking about this a little bit, in past episodes as well, but changing the conversations that we have with each other, I think there's a real expectation. Still that when women have children that they will go to part-time work, that they will stay for it to still take on the labor. And that somehow if they don't do that, if they are full time that they are lesser. I think that there is. Oh, consciously and subconsciously conversations that keep coming at women, that, really do take away the impact from the kind of the careers that we can build, salaries that we can earn because there is an expectation still that women will put their career on hold or pause it while they're, for five years until their children are in school, that they will step back from their careers to support their families in a way that we're not asking men to. And when we went through today, Studies men old were comfortable with, it would put family at the top of their values, none of the women date. And we didn't because it's implied, family is always going to be number one. If we stopped talking too much about our families, people stop thinking that we are not going to, show up in our child's sick. We're not going to be able to cover the work when these things are happening. And this all contributes to this gender pay gap in a really frustrating way. When we start to think about statistics around these, yes, women's salaries are going to be less because they're potentially not willing to take on that extra responsibility in the workplace. They're not willing to. To take on any more than, because I can't, they can't take on any more. They've got too much with the kids too much with the family generally. And then they're also being asked to do this work and we continue to say these conversations happening on Instagram and other socials where women are going, how do I do it all? Is it worth taking on this extra responsibility because something's going to fall apart and I can't be perfect in every area.

Claire:

I could go off on so many tangents with what you just said, then there's so much to, dip into, but you're right. It. Isn't just about the salary. It's about all of that stuff. And I think the one thing that we do need to think of is we're working as a collective system would end with. The men that are there supporting, I've noticed, particularly in the last few weeks, since we've come back into the office more from COVID, it's lovely to see there's a lot less clock watching. I'm saying men leaving the office at 2 33 o'clock because they're obviously on the cubes pick up and stuff. And I think we've got to keep focused on, we are moving in the right direction. Uh, there is still a long way to go though.

Miranda:

So just to continue to finish off that, that point a little bit, you'll find these men are talking about how do I have more work-life balance? How do I make sure I can do the pickups? And by doing that, then the women are certainly going to be able to have a bit more time. We've spoke about women, sharing them. In a more of a community way than men and the statistics around here about 90% of the money women make, is shared within the family. To a 35% of. And I think the expectation is that men are going to be doing the savings for retirement. Men are going to be setting us up and women are going to be contributing to the household and that's where their salary is going. And so one of the things I think we can do today is just make sure that shift is a bit more equal that, we're putting a bit more away for savings and such because. We all again, we've spoken about this utopia of everything going well forever and ever, but when it doesn't, what does that look like? Having that demand for ownership is so important. I don't know claire, you lead me on this one, the statistics around the amount of women going into their time and with, not enough money to survive is absolutely horrific. And, in our unit, we didn't necessarily talk to it too much, but it was certainly something that Sally's really concerned about as well in the American environment. In Australia we're seeing even the media pick this up as really important articles that we need to talk to and go, okay, well, if we're not motivated today, we absolutely should be motivated to make sure that our 65 year old self can live comfortably when we hard to make sure that we've set that up for ourselves for an airfare for our kids.

Claire:

A hundred percent. I know it's difficult for us all to think about. What it might be like to be a retiree, but at the same time, we talked about brave conversations, right at the beginning of season two. How do you start having those conversations at home and what does that look like? And at work, because I definitely need to be happening more and more.

Miranda:

I think collectively we've come to this feeling. The world's ready for this Australia is ready for this. Women are ready for these, to start taking a little bit more control. What do you think it is?

Claire:

I think it touches back on the, what we spoke about earlier with that fidelity report that, a lot of people from our post pandemic experience, we are having a bit of a. Life research or recognition whether that's with our careers or with our money. The reason as you mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, I wanted financial acumen and talking about financial independence within what we call. Talk about it, elevate with grace is because it's so intricately tied to taking smart risks and cultivating your career. And with the economy at the moment. Inflation and interest rates are on the rise. We've had a long sustained level of low interest rates in Australia and low inflation. I won't get all boring with my economics and financial stuff around that, but the point is that inflation and interest rates are on the rise. In the Australian financial review, there's an article, I think it was May 3rd, new worries, drive restless workers to look around and it acknowledges that the cost of living pressures site inflation. And worries around debt would be interest rates going up, have overtaken. The pandemic has the biggest concern for professionals. The flip side of that in talking to our career cultivation pillar, it is a buoyant employment market in Australia at the moment. So giving that bargaining power, we've talked about this a few times in a few episodes, so you've got this. Opportunity with your brave conversations and getting more interested in understanding your financial freedoms that can come from having rainy day savings and thinking about what's in your superannuation account is all the perfect timing to be doing all of that. When we're in, a employee driven marketplace. So now is a great time to be thinking about all of those things together. And so now is a good time to be rolling your sleeves up and finding the fun, finance!

Miranda:

Finding the fun in finance. I absolutely love it. I do think. Just even reading the Australian financial review is really important. Claire, you definitely got me onto it. And I was really surprised to see that less than 30% of the readership is women. And so it is so important that we just do educate ourselves with these little bits of kind of. As we go through, we don't need a formal course. There is some of these great tools out there. There's a lot of fake news, so, you know, they do have a bit more credibility in the marketplace. And, also open you up to a lot of new conversations that you can have within your workplace that you can have those, Intelligent conversations around that and have that awareness around what this election means for our finances, what inflation's going to mean for our finances, just, nice bite sized pieces that you can take in and that you can trust a little bit more, you've definitely got me onto that and I do feel like it, it does help to give me a little bit more rounded roundedness in my knowledge and my understanding of what's going on. That has been a very dynamic episode. My head's a little bit flowy. I am excited and I know that there is just so much that I can do to improve in this space. And I'm sure many people can,, mindset I think we speak about mindset a lot in all of our Y episodes, because it does just get in the way so much if we're not aware of it. And if we're not taking control of how these things aren't getting in our own way mindset is impacting the actions that we take or don't.

Claire:

And it has said it's. I think that it underlines a lot of, I hadn't really thought about that before, when we're talking about taking actions to get to a life of success on your own terms. A lot of the underlying work that we need to do in our love of learning pillar is figuring out our motivations and what causes them and how do we. How do we get curious about them so that they're not holding us back, whether that's career wise, financial wise, taking risks wise, whereas our mindset holding us back and it applies equally to finance as it does, any of the other things that we talk about. So I think great that you talked to that in this episode,

Miranda:

Thank you. What a great place to wrap up this episode. so real quick reminder about action challenge and action challenge for this week is to dig deep on our mindset around money to write down any emotions that you're feeling around money and think about those financial goals or actions that you've been putting off, write them down and then take action on just one. before the next episode. So I want to put a bit of a timeline on this to help you to get it done, make it a priority to bring it to the top of your to-do list and set a clear timeline on how you're going to achieve this over the next couple of weeks. And. Give yourself a reward once it's complete. So really identify today what that reward is going to be when you achieve that, because we need a motivator to get us started. We need that report to get that financial affection done. So make sure you're able to yourself As always we've put all of the curated content we've mentioned in the episode notes. So you can check them out over the next week and deep into the stuff that's really resonating with you. Hopefully you're going to be thinking about this in the next couple of days and really. Are inspired to take those small, actionable steps to help your own success journey. Check out our website, elevate with grace.com that I you, or hop onto our socials at LinkedIn or Instagram for more curated content. We'd love, love, love to hear from you and how you're going on this journey. Um, please, if you haven't already liked it, subscribe and share this podcast. In our next episode, we are going to be diving into those tips and tricks for leveling up on our financial skills. So. I'm looking forward to learning from this one. And I can't wait to chat with you again soon. Thank you, Claire. And thank you everyone so much for listening. Just a quick reminder that this is just a chat between girlfriends. There is no financial advice that we are looking to give in any way, other than just for you to take more ownership of your financial power.

Claire:

It's great to hear your take on some of this stuff when we've got different perspectives. So it's been a great chat and I look forward to speaking to you very soon and looking forward to you, getting into some tips, tricks, and hacks in our next podcast on finance stuff.

Miranda:

Fabulous. Thank you.